並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E5%85%AB%E9%A3%8E-%E6%B8%85%E7%83%AD%E8%A7%A3%E6%AF%92-%E5%B0%B1%E6%89%BE%E5%AE%83/id1545309255?i=1000502665393